The Rundown Podcast: Can Starmer And Macron Renew The ‘Entente Cordiale’?

5 min read10 July

Bonjour and bienvenue to the latest episode of The Rundown, which takes a look at the state of UK-Franco relations amid this week’s state visit to Britain by Emmanuel Macron.

A panel of experts discuss how important a new ‘entente cordiale’ is to Keir Starmer as he deals with political problems both at home and abroad, and why after a pretty frosty few years post-Brexit, the French president seems open to a rapprochement.

To look at what both sides have been able to agree on, and what still divides them, host Alain Tolhurst and PoliticsHome's Matilda Martin are joined by Sir Peter Westmacott, a former UK ambassador to France, and Ben Lake, Plaid Cymru MP and chair of the All Party Parliamentary Group on France.

Also appearing are Francois-Joseph Schichan, director at Flint Global and a former French diplomat, and Adam Plowright, a Paris-based reporter and Macron biographer.

Westmacott began by pointing out how rare such a visit — the first by a European leader since Brexit — is, and what the UK government is trying to achieve by laying on the full pomp and pageantry during the three-day event.

"The fact that it really is such a long time since the last French president paid a state visit, Nicolas Sarkozy in 2008, back in the ‘Dark Ages’ when I was ambassador in Paris, and the fact we haven't had one since then, and we stopped even doing the annual summits between heads of government, shows how far the relationship has come”, he said.

“It got into all sorts of difficulties, we saw what Emmanuel Macron thinks of Brexit in his speech last night [at the Guildhall].”

He pointed out the AUKUS defence agreement, where Britain signed a deal with Australia and the US in 2021, caused problems after the French felt they were being cut out.

“Fortunately, we've got a president in France who is something of an anglophile, who has a close relationship with the king,” Sir Peter added.

“And has understood that for the good of Europe and for the good of France, a better relationship with post-Brexit UK is in their national interest.”

Asked if this summit could usher in a new era of cooperation between London and Paris, after the nadir of the relationship during the pandemic, when France threatened to cut off the electrify to parts of the UK after then-Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s government was accused of failing to provide sufficient fishing licences to French fishers, Westmacott agreed.

“I don't attach a great deal of importance to labels, you’ve got to come up with ‘entente something’ each time you make a speech about France, but on the substance that is right, partly for the reason which is that we've got no choice, given what Russia is doing in Ukraine, and given the mixed signals that we're getting from the United States, for France and the United Kingdom to work more effectively together,” he said.

“But I come back to the point, which is that the personal relationships between Prime Ministers and the President, but also the King and the President, are really important in creating the atmospherics, the goodwill, the political determination to make a success of the relationship.

“And listening to Emmanuel Macron talking about the importance of getting the young people of our two countries, and the artists, the musicians, able to freely travel across the Channel together as part of a youth mobility scheme, it's kind of it's a no-brainer.

“But we're still not quite there, and there's a lot of material like that that we ought to be able to fix, which we lost as a result of Brexit, and which are in everybody's interest to get right.”

At a press conference on Thursday, Starmer and Macron announced a new, 'one in, one out' illegal migration returns deal as part of their joint bid to tackle small boats crossings.

Lake said there is a lack of understanding by right-wing politicians about how tough it is to deal with the crisis, accusing them of being happy to see the problem continue.

"I'm afraid there are too many politicians on the right who are not serious about this matter and don't really actually want to address and resolve the situation,” the MP said.

"Because, let's be frank here, it seems in their political interest that it's not resolved. So I do think that we've seen far too many statements by certain politicians that try to simplify the matter and will try to just blame the French.

"It's something that they are very comfortable in doing, regardless of the reality of the situation, which is a very complex and nuanced problem.”

He said the focus is too much on the boats that do make it across from Northern France, not all the ones which are stopped from setting off in the first place, adding: “And that balance is sorely needed, because if we are to resolve it properly, we need to recognise that there are things that the UK needs to do.

“We also need to have a discussion as the European countries about how we look to support some of those countries from which many of the migrants crossing the Channel originate, to try and stabilise some of these countries.

“It will not be possible in all cases, I accept that, but we should not be retreating from our commitments to international development and overseas aid if we are serious about resolving and addressing this problem in the Channel.”

The Rundown is presented by Alain Tolhurst, produced by Nick Hilton and edited by Ewan Cameron for Podot