Women in Westminster: In Conversation With Carole Gould OBE
Following her daughter’s murder, Carole Gould OBE found herself navigating a criminal justice system that seemed to care more about the needs of perpetrators than victims. As part of our Women in Westminster series, we sat down with Gould to learn why she believes violence against women is still not taken seriously enough by the courts
In May 2019, Ellie Gould was murdered in her home by an ex-boyfriend. She was 17 years old. Because her killer was also 17, he received a prison sentence much shorter than if he had been older. That injustice motivated Carole Gould, Ellie’s mother, to campaign for changes to the law and catapulted her into the public eye.
“Ellie had such a bright future ahead of her,” her mother tells us. “She would have given so much to society. She was so caring and kind and bright, vivacious, and intelligent. She was an amazing young woman.”
At the start of our sit-down conversation with Gould, I describe what she has experienced as “unimaginable”. As the words come out, I apologise for it being a cliché. But some things are clichés precisely because they are true. Having to deal with the murder of your child is something that few of us can imagine.
But Gould is clear that it was not something that she ever contemplated either. Instead, a single act of violence ripped through the fabric of an entirely ordinary life.
“I just quite enjoyed our little life in Wiltshire,” Gould tells us. “You know, we were happy.”
That life was turned upside down when Ellie was killed. Gould was thrust into a new and entirely unfamiliar world of police liaison officers, courtrooms and barristers. Having to navigate that system felt like stepping inside a hidden world where the voices of victims were often coldly disregarded.
“We understood it that victims were meant to be first and central to the criminal justice system,” she tells us. “Well, they're really not. It's all the perpetrators. It's all about them.”
Gould often felt a huge sense of powerlessness in the face of a legal system that she describes as “cold.” Because Ellie’s killer was 17, he was not sentenced as an adult. Instead, he was handed a life term of twelve-and-a-half years in prison.
“I just remember saying to our barrister, 'That can't be right. That's immoral. That's unjust. You've got to appeal it,’” Gould remembers. “He just said, ‘I've told you once, and I'll tell you again, that is the law. It's sentenced within the guidelines. The law is cold, and there's nothing more I can do.’ And off he went. That was it.”
But for Gould, that was certainly not “it”. Fuelled by a sense of injustice, she began to publicly speak out about the inequity of sentencing guidelines that made no distinction between the actions of a 10-year-old and those of a 17-year-old.
“I think it was the injustice, how immoral the outcome was,” she tells us. “Ellie was an amazing young woman. For the state to say, your life is only worth twelve-and-a-half years was just shocking.”
She contacted her local MP and began to raise the issue in the media. Other families who had experienced loss through homicide contacted her. Soon, a new campaign was born. Killed Women was co-founded by Gould and Julie Devey, whose daughter Poppy was murdered in 2018. The campaign has supported families, pressed for sentencing reforms and given a voice to those who felt let down by the legal system.
And as Gould learnt more about the rules around sentencing for domestic homicide, the angrier she became, leading her to campaign for tougher sentences for teenage killers.
“When they introduced Ellie’s Law, they said that the youth sentencing would be a percentage of the adult sentencing. Then I looked into the adult sentencing and thought, how can it be right that if you're murdered in the home, that's 10 years less than if you're murdered in the street? It just felt like you unpick one thing and then you have to unpick another.”
When Ellie’s Law was first announced, Gould spoke out against it because it perversely led to a starting point that would actually have been lower for her own daughter’s murderer. Arguments that it would increase sentences for terrorists, and some other killers missed the central point that the driving force behind the campaign was speaking up for women killed by men.
“Ellie was a victim of male violence, so it felt like a huge insult and that we were used as a poster family to make the government look good,” Gould says. “I think at the time, Sir Robert Buckland [the then Justice Secretary] was horrified that his civil servants had not looked into the detail enough.”
The law was subsequently revised so that a 17-year-old can now receive 90 per cent of an adult sentence. With other campaigners, Gould has also been successful in having a range of new aggravating factors applied to sentencing. It now means that if a woman is murdered because of the end of a relationship, if there is strangulation, overkill, or a history of coercive control, then extra time can be added by a judge.
However, Gould believes that having those factors in the sentencing guidelines is not yet delivering the longer sentences that she and others would like to see.
“Even though it's written into the sentencing guidelines, they are not adding any extra time for these new statutory aggravating factors,” she explains. “I just think there needs to be a huge cultural shift within judges and the judiciary to start taking crimes against women and girls seriously.”
Coincidentally, the week that we spoke with Gould, the headlines were again dominated by a story about youth sentencing. Three teenage boys had just received non-custodial sentences for the rape of two girls in Hampshire. Ellie’s Law applies only to murder, but Gould told us that the Hampshire case illustrates an ongoing disregard for the seriousness of offences against women and girls.
“I think what it exposes is a judge, a male judge, once again, not taking violence against women and girls seriously,” she told us. “And not understanding the huge impact that it will have on those young girls for the rest of their lives.”
Throughout our conversation, it is clear that Gould remains angry. It would be easy to conclude that this is what motivates her. But that would be a mistake. Above all else, her campaigning is driven not by anger but by love.
“Ellie was worth so much more, and this is what she would have wanted,” she says. “She would have wanted proper justice and accountability. I have to be that voice.”
